Katherine: Interesting question. By definition:

Noun: A person who is employed to provide financial services or guidance to clients

By my definition, it is someone who focuses on Life Goal Planning, Investment Management, Financial Planning, Family Legacy Planning, and looking at the client’s overall financial picture to guide the client to fulfill their life goals.

Bracha: What motivated you to become a financial advisor?

Katherine: Money is a complicated subject. So, at a very early age, I was aware of the conflict and resolution money can fulfill. It’s our means of exchange, and therefore not going away. And from the time I was in elementary school, I lived in a home where the stock market ticker went across the screen. Our dinner conversations were about building wealth, investing in real estate and business opportunities.

I knew that money afforded access – and I also didn’t have a ton of modeling of women talking about money. Even in High School I can remember my focus on wanting to build wealth and a freedom lifestyle. After finishing a 5-year Marine Biology program in 4 years, I graduated college, and within a year stepped into the financial services industry. I wanted to break glass ceilings and show other women that they could build their own wealth.

For over 25 years in this industry, I’ve often been – and still am – one of the only women that sits around the tables talking about investing, and breaking financial limits along with the status quo. This creates a large part of my drive as a financial advisor.

Bracha: Are financial planners and wealth managers the same professionals as financial advisors?

Katherine: There are financial advisors that “sell” products. And there are also financial advisors that holistically look at your overall financial life, set up a financial plan, and then offer advice from that standpoint. I fall into the latter category.

Our financial lives are complex, from earning an income, to owning homes, to retirement planning. I would be remiss to say that there is a one-size-fits-all plan. It’s imperative that when I work with my clients, I have details about their financial life now, what they are planning on in the next 3-5 years, and the long-term plan. Everyone has different goals and financial achievements in their lives, and uncovering all of that is what allows me to guide my clients.

Bracha: What educational qualifications should executors look for in a financial advisor?

Katherine: That is a great question – you can google “financial advisor” and come up with all different credentials, or no additional credentials at all. I can speak to the reason I went ahead of my securities licenses and MBA to obtain the CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER® certification.

As someone who values education and continuing the pursuit of excellence, it was important to me to pursue what the CFP Board calls, “The Standard of Excellence. For 50 years, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER® certification has been the standard of excellence for financial planners. CFP® professionals have met extensive training and experience requirements and commit to CFP Board’s ethical standards that require them to put their clients’ interests first.”

In addition, if I were looking for a firm to work with alongside a financial advisor, it would be important to me to look for a Registered Investor Advisor (RIA). An RIA is a financial professional firm that advise clients on securities investment and may manage their investment portfolios. RIAs have fiduciary obligations to their clients, which may mean they have a fundamental duty to always and only provide investment advice that is in the best interests of their clients.

Bracha: If a client passes away, when should the family contact you?

Katherine: First, when you become an executor, it can be overwhelming, and there are numerous people to reach out to. One of the first phone calls made by the family and executor should be to the financial advisor in charge of the deceased accounts. It’s important that the financial advisor knows of the passing of the client. There are processes that need to be followed upon the passing of a client. This is one of the main reasons that at Opal Wealth Advisor we have a document called “The Financial Life Organizer,” which we request to be kept with the client’s estate planning documents. That way, the executor knows who should be contacted at the time of their death.

The executor would work with the financial advisor and their office to distribute the funds according to the deceased client’s wishes. As a financial advisor, we adhere to the estate planning documents and wishes of the deceased. Initially, the executor needs to work directly with the financial advisor that has the accounts. Once the accounts are distributed, it is up to the beneficiaries to pick the financial advisor they would like to work with, moving forward.

Bracha: What documents and information will you need from the family?

Katherine: The documents that we would need are the death certificate, and depending on the type of accounts, we may need originals.

• Quick Tip: It’s important to order more than one original death certificate upon the person’s passing.

We would also need a copy of the Will, Trust(s), or additional legal documents with proof of the executor for the client’s estate.

On retirement accounts, we would work directly with the beneficiaries to collect the required information.

Bracha: Can you illustrate your work with the estate of a former client with a case study?

Katherine: I’ll give you two examples:

1. First, let’s take the example of working with a couple, and one spouse passes away.

And the spouse that passes is the one that is the predominant “financial” partner in the relationship. As a financial advisor and CFP®, it’s important that when working with clients we involve both spouses in the conversation. Not to say that one isn’t the key person in the relationship with the financial advisor, but one is just more involved in the day-to-day.

At Opal, we utilize different tools to assist the client’s overall financial well-being, including ensuring beneficiaries are up to date, that non-retirement accounts are titled correctly, and that assets are to be distributed as the client wishes.

In this example, one client becomes a widow and isn’t sure how to manage all the paperwork, financials, and steps moving forward. And this is a very emotional and stressful time for the widow. So we work with the widow through the process of ensuring the accounts are retitled, assets are moved according to the paperwork that has been put into place, and the beneficiaries are updated according to the living spouse’s wishes.

Most importantly, we guide the widow during this stressful time to ensure that moving forward they are comfortable with the process, with how we are working together now, and that they have the support they need through the process – and beyond.

2. A second example would be a client that had a business alongside their personal investments.

This client had one child, and no partners within the business. All their legal estate planning documents were set up, and the child was unaware of the assets their parent had accumulated. This client’s daughter was in her early 20’s and wasn’t quite sure how to navigate everything, and there was a third-party executor. We worked alongside the executor to distribute the assets according to the client’s wishes, while educating the daughter to move forward. It was important to guide and take the time to understand the beneficiary’s (the deceased client’s daughter) goals, her initial needs, and her future needs. There were many outstanding issues, such as:

• Who would be taking over the business?
• Would the business be sold?
• How to navigate not only the personal investments, but also the business as an asset?
• How to follow the instructions of the deceased, according to the legal parameters set up in her documents?

The moral of the story is that when working with clients, one of the first questions I ask when we are in the discovery meeting is whether they have updated estate planning documents. It’s great to accumulate assets throughout your lifetime, but if you don’t have your directives in order, the state will decide for you.

Bracha: What additional challenges do people who choose to hire a financial advisor for the first time when they inherit assets face?

Katherine: I’d recommend that someone who has come into an inheritance do their due diligence, and speak to a few financial advisors to see who fits your goals and needs. Find out how they work with clients and the resources they have to help you create the financial plan and goals you may not even realize at the time you’re looking for. Ask specific questions, and have them review their financial planning and investment management process. ask about their credentials, who is their ideal client, learn about the firm they are working with, and what additional resources do they have for you to learn about investment management and financial planning.

Don’t be afraid to ask questions – and the financial advisor should be transparent about fees and their relationship with clients.

When you inherit assets, you initially start working with the advisor where the investment accounts are held, but that doesn’t mean you need to stay working with that financial advisor.

Bracha: How can you prepare family members in advance to make the transition smoother, when your clients’ relatives who inherited assets want to keep working with you?

Katherine: As part of my practice, I take pride in meeting the extended family of my clients. They join us for events and webinars to become educated, and they can reach out and ask questions for themselves about their financial future. Some of the biggest challenges that I see with clients who inherit assets arise because the family or decedent hasn’t let them know they will be inheriting, or what the amount will be.

The conversation starts with the advisor encouraging an open dialogue before the client passes. This creates a legacy conversation that is important for those inheriting. It avoids the challenges that those inheriting may face because they are already in an emotional state, and knowing the financial advisor can limit the stress and the transitional period.

Bracha: What resources would you recommend to people who want to increase their financial literacy?

Katherine: There is an abundance of knowledge, books, podcasts, and blogs, which can actually be overwhelming. The first place to start is learning the basics about investment management, the different types of investments, and financial planning. You really can get so in depth that you go down the rabbit hole, so stick to financial planning and investment basics to start. If you choose to hire a financial advisor, he or she can recommend more resources as you build that relationship with them over time, and obtain investment and planning knowledge.

Money is confronting, and most often a source of stress. Give yourself grace when beginning the process of learning about financial planning and investment management.

Katherine M. Dean is a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER professional, Financial Advisor, and founder of OpalWomen at Opal Wealth Advisors. She is also an international speaker and financial advocate, with more than 20 years of experience in the wealth management industry.

Katherine works with couples, widows, executives and women business owners to achieve financial peace of mind. Through the Opal Way, we establish meaningful goals and actions, then we develop a winning financial formula and provide personalized attention to stay on track. To learn more, connect with Katherine on Linked , set up your complimentary consultation here / and checkout her complimentary webinar, Smart Money Moves For Women

**Please see important disclosure information at

The post The Financial Advisor’s Role in Inheritance appeared first on Law & Mediation Office of Bracha Etengoff.

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I joined Bill Gross on The Executorium Podcast to discuss Mediation for Executors. I hope you find it useful.

Bill: Welcome to the Executorium Podcast. I’m your host, Bill Gross, at Bill Gross Probate, where we interview services and vendors that can help executives be more effective as they handle the task of managing an estate – a trustee estate, probate estate, whatever it might be.

One of the common themes that people find when they get involved, particularly when there’s a lot of money involved or a lot of assets involved, is conflict. And you really have two ways.

One is you go to court, which is kind of like shooting nuclear weapons at each other until somebody dies and you destroy the land they’re on. The other option or alternative is mediation.

I’m really excited to have today a practicing attorney who also is a mediator, a practicing mediator, Bracha Etengoff. Thank you so much for joining us again, Bracha.

Bracha: Thank you for having me, Bill. And I am happy at any time to talk about mediation, so I’m real excited to be here.

Bill: So as I sit back as a real estate broker in the probate space and trust litigation space, I just see oftentimes it feels like a World War I battle, where there’s trenches and they’re just shooting each other and there’s all kinds of bodies and blood everywhere, when they go to court. And mediation is an opportunity to avoid it.

Talk about the alternative or the possibilities that mediation presents to an estate that’s in some sort of a conflict.

Bracha: Ideally, we can get there before people dig into the trenches. Once they’ve dug into those trenches, it gets harder, but we can still settle conflicts even after they’ve gone to court.

But let’s talk about the ideal situation where we see there’s this dispute brewing. And people are at the courthouse steps. But people don’t want to sue family members usually.

And they don’t want their privacy invaded by those court proceedings.

And it’s really hard to sit across from anyone at a Christmas dinner or a Hanukkah dinner while you are suing them.

Not to mention the expense – like you said, it just drains away the estate assets.

So mediation is a really great alternative. Mediation involves a neutral facilitator who comes in and tries to help the parties reach agreement. Unlike a judge or even an arbitrator, we don’t impose our decisions on the parties.

So they have a lot of agency to craft solutions that are really the best for them, and that they can say, “This is really what we decided on.”

Which then have a better chance of actually working, right? Because if you and I are fighting and we decide together with someone’s help, this is how we’re going to resolve it, often that will prevent further disputes.

If some other third party came in and said, “Here’s what you’re going to do” – maybe we’ll keep fighting, right?

Bill: You know, as a real estate broker, I often come in, in the middle of a conflict that hasn’t set the trenches yet. And I’ll call one party or the other – somebody’s in charge, they want to sell the house – or the other party, for whatever reason, I’m talking to them.

And the attorney – sometimes I find from the beginning, is already attacking me where I have no dog in the hunt. Just somebody called me who wants to sell a house – you know, I’m glad to help them.

Now I think I’m good at walking through that. But what I find is that oftentimes attorneys, once they’re hired by a client, feel like they’re already fighting for them – as opposed to maybe just listening and assessing what the best solution is. Maybe the best solution is not fighting.

It’s kind of like – do you want to hire a bodyguard who’s armed?

Or maybe you should hire somebody who in those circumstances can help you assess: if you need a bodyguard, hire one, if you don’t though – here’s a way out.

And you must make those same phone calls – those same attorneys that I talked to who are just  guns are blazing from phone call one. How do you get them to just stop for a second and say, “Let’s assess this before we assume that somebody’s right or wrong, or there’s only one solution.”

Bracha: You’ve probably found that in some of the cases it’s bluster, and attorneys feel like if they don’t come in with the guns blazing, the other party is going to think they’re weak. But when it comes down to it, they’re actually on the settlement train and they want to do what’s best for their clients.

There are unfortunately the other types.

Sometimes I see requests for an attorney, “Oh, I need a pit bull.” Whenever I see animals involved, I say “Let’s take a step back and be human beings. To each other and for our clients.”

And you’ve really hit on a point because we have a duty to be zealous advocates for our clients. But what does that mean? Do we zealously advocate into the dust for only our clients who get the best share of the pie?

Or maybe we have a client who says, “I want a fair solution for everyone. I want this wrapped up quickly. What can you do for me?” Then we’re supposed to be advocating for those interests.

And as somebody who’s a probate professional, you can raise this. I have encountered many attorneys who are not aware that mediation can be used in the estate space. So if you brought it up, I’d be curious to see what reactions you get.

Bill: In Los Angeles there is a free program where attorneys and retired judges volunteer time – a certain amount, obviously limited in what they’re going to do. And like everything else in life, I want to say you get what you pay for because you’re getting an attorney’s time and not paying much for it, but you also aren’t going to get much, right?

And the question I always ask is – is there a track record of success? Are you going to a mediator who historically has been able to bring people together, or are you going to a mediator who just grinds through the cases, and it’s just another step in the litigation process?

And so how do you share your success and your skills without bragging? I want to hire you to solve the problem. So how do you get across to prospective attorneys who come to you or executors that you have a track record, or you have the skills to help them get the job done that they want?

Bracha: I suppose that without too many identifying details, I can talk about a case that I have been able to settle previously, and let people kind of draw the comparisons and analogies to themselves, for themselves.

I think also when you speak to someone and they’re knowledgeable and effective – it could be bluster, but sometimes the truth of it does come across. As attorneys, we have become very good at sussing out, “Is this person just kind of selling this or, or do they really have something may be a track record of success?”

I can’t put names of cases I’ve settled on my website. Confidentiality (and the way I want to treat my clients anyway) preclude me from doing that. But I can certainly talk about cases with some identifying details changed, and people get the sense that she’s not just making up this very detailed story.

Bill: Right, I’m kind of the same way. I’ve had people ask me sometimes, “Can I get references of some clients you sold houses for?”

And I said, “To be honest I’d rather not bother them. If you don’t get that I’m good for you by now, that’s okay, I have other phone calls to make about the business.” I’m not disrespectful – I would like to help you – but what I don’t want to do is bother my past clients with phone calls about my business. Nobody signed up for that.

And again, I think it comes across, if you talk about their case and the problem and you do it effectively, they’re gonna be interested.

And so I think the first step is just to talk to the parties and get a sense. So let’s say that an executor’s interested in mediation. Of course they’re on one side – there’s another side.

Or they have an attorney and their sense is the attorneys are just battling and running up the fee, and they want to find out about the opportunity for mediation.

Do you do consults with executives or attorneys before you take on a case?

Bracha: I do. The first person who calls me, I’ll usually speak with for about half an hour because people need to be briefed. What is this mediation business?

It’s different than what my lawyer is doing for me – really getting the point across that I don’t represent any party as a mediator. So it’s very different than an attorney, actually.

And we have a challenge. We have a natural bias towards, “Let’s advocate for someone.” And we have to get out of that headspace as mediators.

So when somebody comes to me, I explain basically what mediation is and what the process looks like. People generally ask for some sense of what it might cost, and I talk to them about the factors.

And at that point, they really need to call whoever it is that needs to get on board with this idea on the other side, and find out if they’d consider mediation.

And occasionally somebody comes to me and they’ve done that step already. And I can just  straight off meet with both parties, and have a very productive and substantial first session.

More often I get a call like, “I heard about this” or “I saw it on your website – and what exactly does that even mean?”

And you’ve identified some of the challenges right there. I also practice prenup mediation, and like estate mediation a lot of people don’t know that that’s an option. What you’ve identified as being in the adversarial mindset and getting all the best for their clients – sometimes people walk into prenups with that same mindset.

But really, this is a time when people love each other. And sometimes the spouse with more means wants to make sure the other person is taken care of – not give them as little as possible to still get that person to marry them. So it’s actually a prime candidate for mediation.

And then we have what’s called review attorneys. Each party gets an attorney to review the ultimate prenup draft.

But besides that, I do spend a lot of time in the estate and elder mediation space. Estate mediation has its challenges all of its own – because siblings, right? Often we’ve got siblings inheriting, and siblings kind of do not have to resolve their problems.

So it’s true that some people stay married and don’t resolve anything, but often things are pushed to a head. Because maybe they’re raising kids together, or they’re just spending so much time with each other.

And siblings may have these deep-seated issues – and believe me, I see them come out in mediation. But you’re able to just maybe spend some holidays all at mom’s house, and then everyone goes home, and maybe you do it again next year.

Or you saw each other at the funeral, but now what?

I think that because it doesn’t have to be such a close relationship, that creates challenges all of its own, when you need to do something so personal and reach agreement on splitting up assets.

Bill: Yeah, I think generally speaking, people feel the need to maintain a relationship with parents. And I do myself – I have two siblings, one of each. I feel the need to continue the relationship with them at all costs, and work through whatever it is.

But many people don’t. It’s like – that’s just my brother. And we didn’t get along when we were kids.

Well, that’s a choice. That’s not my choice – I think that’s a mistake. And obviously in any mediation when you go into it with “this relationship is not of value to me,” you’re going to be a lot harder to work with than if you appreciate the relationship. Then then you have to make some sacrifice to keep the relationship, and there’s value there that you have to work towards, and so let’s talk.

What do you think is the biggest mistake that leads to conflict that you as a mediator help unwind? Like what is it that you bring?

Bracha: In a recent estate mediation, I had two siblings, a brother and a sister. And the sister brought up an issue in a session and said, “I feel safe bringing this up because Bracha is here.”

And I know everyone wants to know settlement stats – but to me, that’s actually as meaningful, that’s very high praise.

That’s quite as important to me as: Did the case actually get settled? Because in order to even get there, people have to be somewhat free to open up.

Bill: In my experience, when I’ll have somebody like yelling at me or very upset, I say “Do you mind if either we take this conversation to text or email, so we have a record? Or can I record this?

Because what I don’t want is a lack of accountability. I find that when people are arguing with each other, they can say whatever they want, because it kind of disappears in the ether. But when the third person’s in the room, they know now they’re accountable for what they say to some degree. You’re paying attention.

And I think sometimes, rather than record the conversation, bring a third party in. Bring some accountability to one’s positions, and one’s logic, and one’s decisions. And I think that’s why I think one of the biggest things a mediator does is to add some accountability to the process.

Bracha: Oh, a hundred percent! I started off my mediation career in foreclosure mediation during the housing crisis, way back in ‘08. Really half of the purpose was – let’s set a schedule.

So I was mediating for the New Jersey courts. And as I’m sure you know, being in this space, people were sending documents that banks requested, and banks didn’t get it and or banks didn’t process it in time. And by the time the bank processed it, they said, oh, no, no, no. We need your most recent paycheck. That paycheck is too old. But when you sent the paycheck again to the bank, it’s again too old.

So a large portion of it is, yes, by the next mediation session you will have explored, for example, creative mortgage alternatives. I give you someone that you can call who works with people.

Let’s say you don’t have a lot of income showing on the books. Let’s say you’ve got bad credit history. Well, there are still loans that you can get, not like loan sharks, but real loans. They will be at higher interest rates.

But at the end of the day, the person who I’m speaking with does have to make that call. So with mediation, there is an element of – I can hold you accountable. But again, because I’m not the judge, I can’t sanction you if you didn’t make that call.

But ultimately, if both parties aren’t fully participating in the process, then that tells us what we need to know – that one or both are not really willing to resolve this. And the other person may have no choice but to bring a partition action, because they would like some portion of their inheritance while they can still enjoy it.

Maybe they haven’t been able to buy a home of their own. A lot of people, when they inherit half of their parents’ home, for example, that’s when they can finally become homeowners themselves. So I sympathize with that completely. People can’t wait forever.

So both parties really have to be committed to finding a solution.

Bill: Yeah, I find often as a real estate agent, when people have inherited with multiple siblings, there’s the one sibling who’s holding up the sale. Sometimes the other sibling, the “good guy” or “good gal,” just doesn’t believe that the brother is willing to be dishonest and continue holding up the sale for no reason.

And I think getting it to a conclusion – say, he’s not willing to meet any reasonable standard of solution here – it gives them clarity, at least to now move forward with the difficult choices. But at least with the conviction of knowing you’ve done everything you can.

Bracha: I had a case exactly like that. And from the beginning, the other sibling said, “If I didn’t love you, if I didn’t care, I would have been in court a few years back. I would have brought a partition action. That’s what all the lawyers tell me to do. But this is my last shot with you.”

And that was actually the client who wouldn’t make the call. He wouldn’t call about the creative mortgage solutions that he needed. I called ahead to that professional. But ultimately, you have to make the call.

And ultimately his sister had to realize he is not on board. And she had to get to a place where she felt, “I did all I could I want to be a good sibling, but you can’t wait forever.”

So I love that you brought that up because everyone wants to settle, of course, and that’s our ideal solution as well. But sometimes that reality testing, and that feeling like “I’ve gotten to the end of the road, I’ve done everything I could,” is a success in itself.

Bill: And I also think for the “bad sibling” (meaning living there forever, not being responsible, not paying for anything, really stealing from their siblings without their choice)…the sibling didn’t say, “We’re gonna agree to pay you a thousand dollars a month of value living here free.” We didn’t have that discussion. We didn’t have that agreement. I just don’t think it’s healthy spiritually for that bad sibling.

They have a chance. If they sell their share, they can move to a cheaper area, find a roommate, live on the money – there’s a lot of options there. But the option of “I’m just going to steal from my siblings” is, I think, inherently bad. And I think getting the siblings who want to resolve things at least the clarity – even if you don’t resolve the matter with the brother, resolving it can be he doesn’t want to resolve it. He wants to live for free, he wants to live on your good graces forever.

And that’s not really a good option for you, and for your kids, and your family. That clarity at the end of the mediation, even if it fails to resolve the matter, is a resolution that helps people.

Bracha: Absolutely. I do guardianships as well when an elder needs protection. And I do elder mediation: Can we form a caregiving plan for this person with different people in the family contributing that’s going to be sufficient, so that we don’t need that removal of independence that guardianship implies?

And I had really excellent trainers for that, and they said, “There is a reason that guardianships exist. There is a reason we have courts.” And there is.

So not every case, unfortunately, can be resolved through mediation. We do tell people that. That said, I have been able to resolve quite a few, and I’m happy about that.

Bill: And you’re right that there are other options. You could find a roommate, you can downgrade.

Bracha: I don’t usually see the person who’s living in that house that they inherited only a share of wanting to do that. I hear, “I want to stay here,” and not a recognition of, “Okay, I’m single. I have only one income and this house is in a pricey area. And if I were starting to look for something tomorrow, I know I couldn’t afford that.”

Or this feeling of, “But I have to live in this expensive area of the city! What else could I do? And of course, I need three bedrooms.”

So people have gotten used to a certain standard. And what I see is that a lot of people have a lot of difficulty with that shift in mindset, and just facing that reality of, “I can’t have the life that I’ve been used to having anymore.”

Bill: Well, they were never launched a responsible adults. And so now either this changes them, or if they don’t change, they’re not responsible. They don’t have the ability to see life as, “I need to take care of myself.” They’re just used to mom and dad letting them stay for free and that’s never ending.

For those who are interested in following up on mediation alternatives, and/or estate questions in general, guardianships/conservatorships, the Law and Mediation Office of Bracha Etengoff phone number is (347) 640-0993.

And the website is . And if you go there, you’ll see a nice picture of her as well as a description of her legal services. And then also the top right corner is a click phone call, and you can get in touch with her as well.

And then Bracha, thank you so much for your time today.

Bracha: I really appreciate being on. I hope I didn’t overstay my welcome, because I could talk about this forever! But thank you so much for raising awareness.

Bill: It’s me. I enjoy this topic a lot. And I’m in this space a lot where there’s a conflict and I wish more people turned to mediation. So I think my goal here is to try to advocate, hey, explore this alternative.

If you’re an executor, if you’re an attorney, why don’t you see if you can’t bring another third party in that can help avoid litigation?

Because litigation is a no-win. As a realtor, my house doesn’t sell. But more than that, my customer doesn’t get the money. The person living in the house who’s living there for free, it’s not really good for them spiritually. I can say that on a personal level. It’s just not good.

And so if we can resolve these matters more often, great. And, Bracha, you’re a resource to do that.

So thank you so much for being on with us today. Alright, you have a great day there.

And for everybody else, this is the Executorium Podcast. We get together every week and interview vendors and providers of services from the program: is the website.

If you go there, you have a directory of services, government resources, articles, and learning. If you go to the Browse button and put in your county, you get a list of various vendors: probate attorneys, and people who dispose of items, people who help you, grief support, legacy management, all kinds.

And then here we have, under probate attorneys, Bracha, who also is under mediation, the only person listed under mediation in New York County.

It’s just a great resource – these other tabs as well: government resources for free forms and such, and then the articles and learning on the subject.

So again, I’m Bill Gross at Bill Gross Probate, your host on Executorium. We do have a new episode every week.

Thank you so much for joining us – as always, make today your best day ever. Thanks so much.

The post Estate Mediation Interview w. Bill Gross – Executorium Podcast appeared first on Law & Mediation Office of Bracha Etengoff.

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Transcript of our discussion:

Dalia: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Rock the Closing. Today is a very special episode. We are super excited to welcome another guest today – Bracha Etengoff. She is a trusts and estates attorney in New York City and Long Island. She does mediation of estate disputes too. And she’s going to be talking to us a little bit about how real estate and trusts and estate come together, how they can relate, how they can intersect, what some issues might be, problems, benefits, all the things.

So we’re very excited to have her. We will be posting her information on the website. Look out for that. And her website is һ��ݹ���

Orsolya: I am very excited, Bracha! Welcome to our show, and I think that you will have so much important information for our listeners. So what happens to the real estate when someone passes away?

Bracha: Thank you so much for having me, it’s a pleasure to be here. And I’d be happy to try to shed some light on this mysterious process. We can help people understand what happens, and the control that they have to make sure what they want to happen, happens – instead of just some default.
So what happens to real estate when someone passes, along with all their other possessions, is dependent on what plans they made during their life for their distribution.

Dalia: So that would be if somebody had thought ahead and planned ahead. But I feel like a lot of people are in this situation when they don’t have a plan, or they haven’t gotten around to putting it down on paper. Well, what happens then?

Bracha: In that case, the law has a default plan, and it might match your wishes – or it might not. But the law says, there has to be some rule about what happens if you didn’t tell us what you wanted. And here’s the way it often works. Say someone is married, with a wife and two children.

What the law will presume is that in most relationships, you would want your possessions to be divided between your spouse and your children. We also presume that you’d want your children’s share to be divided equally among them. So the law says all right, the first $50,000 in your estate goes to your wife.

After that, everything is divided half to your wife, half to your children. Now, the half that your children inherit, each one gets an equal share. So what ends up happening is: half to the wife, a quarter to your first child, and a quarter to your second child. That adds up to the whole of your estate.

Orsolya: But as I think all of us know, life is never so straightforward and people may want to make a decision that is not what the law prescribes. So could someone decide differently about the estate by writing a will? What could you achieve with the will, when it comes to real estate?

Bracha: The one thing to keep in mind – and this is something you would have to discuss with your estate planning attorney – is in New York and actually in all states in the nation, spouses do have inheritance rights. Your estate plan needs to either account for that, or you can have your spouse waive their rights. But I’m not going to tell you that you could do absolutely anything you want.

So leaving that aside, say you want to actually give everything to your spouse, because your children are 7 and 10 years old, and they won’t be able to manage their own money if they inherit it. At 7 and 10 years old, the court is going to say: We need to appoint someone to manage that money for them, and you can only access it with our oversight. And they’ll get it straight out when they turn 18.

There is really no 18-year-old who should be inheriting $1,000,000 – or even $100,000 – with no strings attached. You’re just not old enough to be able to make wise financial decisions on your own.

So often people say: “My spouse is also the mother of my two children. I’m confident that they will take care of my children, so I’d rather have everything go to my spouse.”

On the other hand, some people stay married for various reasons. Even if they’re not living together, even if the relationship has concluded, sometimes people stay married for another 10, 15, 20 years. For example, maybe you need your spouse’s health insurance, or maybe you don’t believe in divorce.

There could be any number of reasons you don’t want what is dictated to you in the statute to be the inheritance structure.

Dalia: Wow, that’s really interesting that you say that, because in my past life as a divorce attorney, I have met a lot of clients who stayed legally married to their spouse for many, many years after the relationship had basically ended. And I know for a fact they would have been really upset if they had passed, and their property and assets had passed to that spouse.

So it’s great to have a plan for each season of your life, because things change.

You definitely don’t want to work your whole life, then have what you worked so hard for not be distributed in the way you want.

I also get a lot of questions about putting property in a trust. I think a lot of times people don’t really understand what that is or how it works. So can you shed any light on what the benefit would be of including property in a trust?

Bracha: One incredible benefit of keeping property in a trust instead of passing it simply through your will is that the trustee – the person who you name to be in charge of the property in your trust – you can name someone to do that after you pass. So typically, people will often retain the power for themselves to act as trustee and manage all their property during their own lifetimes. But once they pass the “successor trustee” can take over.

So let’s compare a couple of situations. Say you put your house in a trust and upon your passing the trustee can say: “The market’s really good right now. I would like to be able to sell this house sooner rather than later so that my family can get the full benefit of their inheritance.” Or, “I don’t want to hold onto this property because none of us really want to live there.” For example, if one of the trustees is a child, and you’ve got a number of children who live in different parts of the country. And nobody wants to live in this family home they grew up in.

The longer you have to hold on to that house, the more your inheritance is frittered away.
Because for every day, every month, every year that you can’t sell that house, you are liable to keep paying for its utilities. And for the property taxes.

And the amount of money that you may be able to sell your house for now versus next year could be hundreds of thousands of dollars different, depending on what happens in the market.

Is it a seller’s market? Maybe now it is, but next year you’re going to get $200,000 less for this house because it hasn’t been able to be sold.
But if the house is in a trust instead, you can sell that house pretty much immediately.

Dalia: Wow. That’s really good information, because I feel like a lot of people just have this obscure idea of how a trust works or what’s involved, and they don’t have the real clear picture. So thank you for that.

Bracha: You have a trust that is separate from a will, it’s a separate way of owning property. Then you don’t have to wait for the courts to appoint someone under the will with authority to sell the house.

That house is happy living its own little separate life in that trust – far away from the courts, far away from waiting for the court to approve your will.

Dalia: It’s great to have to be able to have that control, to be able to manage your own property like that. So there is more than one kind of trust. Can you shed some light on that too?

Bracha: So usually we divide trusts into revocable and irrevocable trusts.

With a revocable trust, you can retain as much control as if you owned the property in your own name.

So typically, if you have a married couple, they will own that house together in the trust, the same way they would have both been on the deed in their personal names, and they may both be acting as trustees during their lifetime. They can do whatever they want with their house in that trust, the same way that they could do whatever they wanted if that house was in their personal names.
That’s usually what we use revocable trusts for – complete flexibility.

But an irrevocable trust means you have transferred ownership to someone else in an irrevocable manner, meaning it cannot be taken back.

You’ve made a permanent transfer, so it no longer mainly belongs to you, but you might be able to retain something like a life estate. Perhaps you would like to explain that to your listeners.

Dalia: Absolutely.

If you’re retaining a life estate in your property that’s in an irrevocable trust, then you are basically promised to be able to live there for the rest of your life.

Kind of like a lease that doesn’t run out until you pass away. So that’s a good way to make sure that you have the protections of a trust, but also the security that you won’t be booted from your house that you’ve put in this trust if the trustee is someone else. And so you at least have that ability to stay there.

Bracha: And often these are used for Medicaid planning purposes. Because even if Medicaid is going to let you keep your residence, after the person on Medicaid passes, the state may try to recover the money that they have expended for their care. And the state could put a lien against the house.

If this property is instead transferred to a Medicaid Trust, the house actually didn’t belong to that person on Medicaid anymore during their lifetime. It belonged to the children, and the person on Medicaid simply retained a life estate – a right to live there during their lifetime.

And this is not a simple concept, and it also is not something that should be done without a full consultation with a qualified attorney so that you can look out for the different tax consequences and really make the best decision for you.

Dalia: I know a lot of people have that concern when they own a house. As they get older, what’s going to happen to that house when they need medical attention or if they’re going into a home?

Orsolya: I’m just listening here and learning so much from you. There are so many considerations. And you mentioned something before which comes up very often in real estate transaction. And I’m talking about capital gains tax. Very often a young couple purchases a home, and they spend decades in that home. And then, as we know, in New York the market is really growing. Or perhaps you invested in a home 40 years ago, and then the price went so far up with the market changing that you might be exposed to capital gains tax.

Capital gains are the difference between the selling and the purchase price. When there is a huge surge in the market price for certain property, or when a family has owned the property for an extended amount of time, then we have to look into capital gains tax.

Then we do have to report that, and if capital gains taxes are due, the seller will have to pay a certain amount to the tax authorities. Would capital gains tax also be something that will apply if the buyers are putting the property in a trust?

Bracha: I’m going to continue to focus on what happens if your children receive that house after your passing. Depending on the plan that you’ve made, what could be the implications on capital gains taxes?

When someone inherits real property, they receive a benefit called the step up in basis when calculating capital gains taxes.

Say you’ve got a townhouse that was purchased in 1970 for $100,000 and today it’s worth three and a half million. Now, if you inherit this, then you receive the step up in basis. Instead of paying the difference between $100,000 and three and a half million dollars, instead of that being the basis of the calculation for whether you gained or lost money from this sale, the difference is calculated from the date of the person who passed.

So say the person passed when the house was worth 3.4 million. By the time you got around to selling it, it’s worth 3.6 million. Then the capital gains tax is calculated only on that $200,000 difference.
And that’s true if the property passed without a will, or through a will, or through a revocable trust.

Because remember, a revocable trust will allow you to retain total control during your lifetime. So it’s as if it was still owned by the person who passed in their own name. It is treated the same for the purposes of capital gains tax as well.

However, if that property had been transferred into an irrevocable trust such as a Medicaid trust, it is looked at as a gift made during their lifetime – not as an inheritance. And when you calculate capital gains tax, you are going to be responsible for the differential between $100,000 and $3.6 million.

I receive calls like, “Can you just put my son on the deed? I don’t want the house to go through probate.”
And that would have the same problem for capital gains taxes.
Because when people call me like that, I ask them: “What did you buy it for?
And they say things like: “$100,000 back in 1980.”
And I ask: “What is it worth now?”
And they say: “Oh, about a million.”

If their son would inherit that home, they would have the benefit of the step up in basis. And only pay the difference between $1,000,000 and what it sells for.

But if you put someone on the deed, then you are – without really thinking about it – creating a situation where half the transfer is done during their lifetime.

The main point is – don’t make a decision like this just because a friend put their kid on the deed, or you heard that probate is something to avoid, or that a Medicaid trust is a good idea.

The way to make decisions like this is to consult someone who can guide you through the process and help you figure out, based on your circumstances, what’s best for you.

Maybe if you just bought the house yesterday, you don’t care as much, right? You bought the house yesterday. It was worth $700,000. And you expect that maybe when you pass, it’ll be worth $800,000. That’s a different calculation than our house in 1970 that was purchased for $100,000.

Dalia: Yeah, I get a lot of calls for people wanting to add someone to a deed or just change things up. They definitely think it’s like a one and done, quick thing that just needs to be filed with the clerk’s office. But there’s all these consequences, like Bracha just told us.
So what advice would you give for a first time buyer who asks:
“What should I do? Should I put this in my and my spouse’s name? Should we buy this in a trust? Should we buy it first and put it in a trust? Do we need a trust?”

Bracha: If you consult a trusts & estates attorney from the outset, you will be in a much better place – rather than you just want to get to the closing, you just want to buy the house, you’ll worry about it later. But it’s hard for later to actually happen.

Once you’re busy with your closing, packing, and moving – to later find another lawyer, and set up a trust, and transfer the house into a trust – that really may not get done at all.

And the other problem is, you’re going to have to pay title company fees and legal fees again.

Title company fees could be about $600. And you’re going to probably end up paying a thousand at least in legal fees, possibly a couple of thousand, because somebody has to trace back and look at:

• What kind of ownership is this?
• Did you buy it with your spouse or with someone else?
• What happened here and what kind of trust do I need to create?
• Do you want to carry through that form of ownership or change that form of ownership?

If you’ve identified a property that you want to buy, you can have your trusts and estates attorney work closely with your real estate attorney – you are much better off setting up a trust right then.

Your trusts and estates attorney can counsel you on which kind of trust is right for you.

And then you make sure that the property is actually put into the trust. Because it is not unusual for people to set up fancy trusts – but never actually put the property in them.

And unfortunately, that can even happen when lawyers do it, because it’s the kind of detail that sometimes gets forgotten. Unfortunately, we do see cases often when trusts have been set up for clients, and when someone passes, they come to our office and we check the deed. And the deed says that the house is still in the person’s personal name – it never made it into the trust.

So if you can have your players communicate with each other – your trusts and estates attorney and your real estate attorney – you’re usually going to get a better result.

You’re going to make sure it gets done, and you’re going to make sure it gets done right.

Orsolya: Bracha, thank you so much for this very interesting insight. I really enjoyed talking with you and receiving all this information that intersects with real estate. I would like to encourage all who listen to our podcast today that if you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to Bracha. Her website is brachalaw.com
Both Dalia and myself are working with Bracha very closely. If you need a real estate attorney, rest assured that we can involve Bracha to give you more options, and vice versa.
So again, real estate attorneys and trusts and estates attorneys are often working together. And this is something that should be your final take away when you embark on a real estate transaction in your life.
Once again, thank you so much for chiming in for today’s Rock The Closing. I hope to see you in our next episode!

Dalia: Thank you for tuning in to Rock The Closing. This podcast is hosted by real estate attorneys who offer valuable insights. Please remember that the content is for educational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. Always consult a qualified professional before making any decision. This podcast is copyrighted by Rock the Closing and any reproduction, syndication or rebroadcasting of the content requires written permission.

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The post Rock the Closing! Episode 17 Chat with a Trust & Estate Attorney: Highlights appeared first on Law & Mediation Office of Bracha Etengoff.

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Michael: Hello, welcome to another episode of five minutes with , a litigation partner in the family law firm of , with offices in New York City, Westchester, and Long Island. Today my special guest is Bracha Etengoff of the Law & Mediation Office of Bracha Etengoff. Welcome to !

Bracha: Thank you so much, Michael.

Michael: So tell me, what is the Law & Mediation Office of Bracha Etengoff, and what’s your role in the company?

Bracha: So I started my firm about seven years ago with the goal of making the estate world more accessible and convenient to people who have busy lives – as do we all. If you’re going to make your will, or if you’re going to become an executor of an estate for a family member, this is something that you take on in addition to your responsibilities of daily life. I do everything I can to make it easier for people to get this done.

Michael: You know that I am a matrimonial and family law attorney. When will my clients most often require your services?

Bracha: Your clients and my clients definitely should overlap! If people are going through a divorce, then after that, they probably want to look over their wills if they have ones, or they need to create them if they don’t have ones. But either way, they probably need to look at who is going to be a trustee for their minor children if they pass away.

Michael: Sure.

Bracha: And maybe they don’t want it to be their ex-spouse anymore.

The other time where your clients and mine overlap is when people are planning to remarry. They need to think about how they want their assets to be used after they pass. Some people wanted them to go first to their spouse to use during their life, but afterward to their kids. And you need to plan for that, because it won’t happen automatically under the law.

Michael: Ok, so what are the challenges that you face in your area of work?

Bracha: I think that it can be hard for people to approach this subject for a lot of reasons. It can be difficult to talk about issues around death. It can be difficult for people to say, “Let me add this to my busy life.”

I try a number of methods to help people move forward. Some of that is just being a really good listener and helping people talk about difficult issues, like:

• Do you have a child with special needs?
• Is there someone that we need to protect in this estate plan more than usual?
• Do you expect this probate proceeding to be contested? Do you think someone in the family is going to argue about their inheritance? Let’s plan for that at the outset.

I think that there’s a lot to surmount, but it can be done, and starting is half the battle for sure – just getting started with this.

Michael: Absolutely. So what would be the best way for a prospective client or other professional like myself to contact you?

Bracha: I just revised my website. It’s got a lot of helpful information if you want to learn about this area of law, and how it might help you in your life. That’s at and my phone and email are there [347-640-0993 and bracha@brachalaw.com].

Bracha means blessing, by the way.

Michael: That’s right. We have now come to the most important part of our show and that happens to be the question of the week. So, Bracha Etengoff, this is your question of the week:

If you could come up with a college course, what would the college course be and why?

Bracha: I don’t know if future lawyers are the only people who’d want to take this course – I hope not! I think it would be so great if there was a course about personal law, so that the first time you had an issue with an employment contract you were asked to sign, you had some basic knowledge about what it might mean and how to find a lawyer that specializes in or is competent in that area, if you want to bounce it off them. Of course, for your clients, family law – and estate planning. It would be so great if people could come out of college with some background, and not feel like they’re at loose ends the first time they have a legal need.

Michael: That’s a great answer. And I have to say, you have said it all. You are helping people with their estate planning one day at a time. And I want to thank you for being a wonderful guest on Five Minutes with Fried.

Bracha: Thank you, it was such a pleasure to be here. Take care.

The post “Five Minutes with Fried” Interview with Bracha Etengoff (July 18, 2023) appeared first on Law & Mediation Office of Bracha Etengoff.